The Sample Was Ample

 I watched the first half hour, which is more than I usually watch one of those things.  I found it humorous at first, but it got old really quick.  Then I went to the news app on my computer, and there were several articles about it already, which all said pretty much the same things that Uncle Ken said.  Even though it was still in progress, they all wrote about it as if they had seen it yesterday.  When I left, I had the feeling that the rest of it wasn't going to be substantially different from what I had already seen.  Maybe that's what the writers on my news app were thinking too, so they figured they might as well write it up and do something interesting with the rest of their evening.

Speaking of bull shit, my neighbor has been flying a Trump flag in his yard since early spring.  It says, "Trump 2020 - No More Bull Shit".   I was puzzled the first time I saw it because the two statements contradict each other.  Then I got to thinking that it's really all bull shit, it's only a question of if you prefer Trump's bull shit or somebody else's bull shit.  

My position on Trump remains unchanged, I don't like him but I'm going to vote for him anyway.  I will be surprised if he wins, but I don't want him to lose because of my vote.  Like I said previously, I care more about issues than I do about personalities.  Trump is an asshole, no doubt about it, but he's all we've got.  Better an asshole Republican than any kind of Democrat because the Democrats want to raise our taxes, take away our guns, and let illegal immigrants over run our country.

Wasn't that a mighty storm?

Well what else did anybody expect?  Since the entire Republican senate, minus that rascal Romney, gave him a golden forever get free card, he has been unchained, no make that unmoored.  For a year now (has it only been a year?) he has faced only yes men and the press who have no power and he can bully at his will.  

How dare that Chris Wallace, who as a Foxie should have been admiring his new clothes, have the temerity to tell him to stop interrupting?  And here was this Biden, this Sleepy Joe, who Trump had long been sneering at calling Trump a liar and a clown and telling him to shut up.  

Biden was proving he was no senile old man and Trump was showing he was an even bigger bag of wind than people had expected.  Surely I expected this was going to move the needle a few points.  But then I had to pause as I realized that the an even bigger bag of wind was to his supporters, like the guy who marries the fat girl, that much more to love.

She started it.  The three of us all grew up with sisters,  Remember those little squabbles and Mom bursting into the room and you defending yourself with that line?  And likely Sis was saying the same thing about you.  And Mom was not interested in determining who started it, she just wanted it to stop right now.

And maybe it didn't matter in those situations because likely half the time you started it and half the time she did, so it all evens out.

But in the case of the debate Trump started interrupting first in almost all cases, what was Biden to do?  If he didn't interrupt back later he would look like a stiff, he would look weak.  And then the reaction was well they were both yelling a lot so a pox on both their houses, like Trump's instigation didn't matter.

Well you guys know what side I am on.  It looked to me like a clear victory for Biden, likely to move the meter a few clicks among independents which is the best that could be expected.

After the debate CNN was all on my side like I expected them to be, so I quickly turned the dial to FOX.  What looked like bad matters and attempted bullying to me looked forceful to them.  They gave Trump points for being forceful.  Biden who interrupted less, mainly just in response to Trump's bullying, was seen as less forceful, which was a bad thing in their eyes.  Nevertheless they seemed to be calling it a draw.  If FOX was calling it a draw that had to be a big victory for Biden.

Back to CNN they had some kind of focus group, about a dozen folks dressed in light jackets and sweaters sitting in lawn chairs about six feet apart.  Independents, who Beagles likes to call wishy washies, and I am pretty much in agreement with him on that.  Blah blah blah, they all seemed disgusted with the whole affair, but then came the moment of truth.  How many were more inclined to vote for Biden.  One hand.  How many were more inclined to vote for Trump.  One hand.  Well what the fuck, who chose this group of stiffs?

You know there is a certain amount of prissiness among these independents.  Many of them are all like Oh, I have such high ideals that I can't dirty my hands with that awful political business.  They make me sick.  

Anyway here I am in the morning listening to the spinmasters.  I know the dawgs are not as fond of politics as I am, but I wonder if they watched the debate and what their opinions are.

Copping an attitude

Was the cop kind of waiting around for a bribe?

Maybe, maybe not; after all this time it's impossible to say.  The police, in my experience, have an incredible amount of discretion and if they're not already writing in their ticket book you might enjoy a little wiggle room.  I'm not saying that some of them are lazy but, again in my experience, they don't like all the paperwork involved (who would?) and they don't like going to court.  If you don't behave like a jerk and if you're not perceived as a threat you could very well walk away after having had the fear of god put into you.

If you're strolling along, minding your own business, and happen to encounter an on-duty officer don't avoid eye contact or otherwise act suspicious; they develop keen instincts.  I want to stay off their radar (especially on the road, ha, ha) but if I encounter them and make eye contact I simply nod to acknowledge their presence and continue on my way.  Sometimes they even nod back but in any case they usually decide to ignore me, which is exactly what I want.

Whether on duty or off I don't see any point in discussing hot button topics like BLM with any police officer.  Unless you are a fellow officer I don't think they will trust you and be 100% candid, that's just the way it is.

-----

Big debate coming up tonight and I'll make a prediction: there will be no debate.  Some kind of phony crisis will come up and demand the full attention of the Tax Dodger in Chief.  Any number of players could be involved, guys like Putin, Kim, or Xi and some kind of political theater will be created to make Trump look good.  It could happen, you know.

I'm not sure about that Supreme Court nominee.  There's something about a woman having seven children that makes me question her judgement unless she's a full-time Mom.  You can call me old fashioned on this one.

 

 

A Theory About That Close Call

 A week or so after the incident, I talked to a bartender friend of mine who claimed to have some experience in such matters.  He said that the cop didn't believe me when I told him that I had not drunk anything after the bar closed in St. Ignace, probably because that's what most of his customers would have done.  Although I used to drink and drive in those days, I never did develop the habit of drinking while driving, but apparently lots of people did.  Anyway, my friend said that the cop was stalling to allow the last few drinks he thought I had consumed work their way into my system so they would show up on the Breathalyzer test.  Since I really hadn't drunk anything since 2:30, all the cop accomplished was to allow time for some of the stuff I had consumed before 2:30 work its way out of my system.

I have never heard of our local police soliciting or accepting bribes.  The only incident of police brutality I have heard of occurred before I moved here in 1967, but people were still talking about it.  Two city cops allegedly handcuffed a guy to a utility pole and beat him up.  Knowing the guy, he might have deserved it, but of course that didn't make it right.  There was talk of a lawsuit for awhile, but the alleged victim, his family, and the local newspaper suddenly stopped talking about it.  Rumor had it that the guy was paid an undisclosed amount of money to forget the incident ever happened. 

I know that soldiers on guard aren't supposed to engage in idle chit chat with passers by, but I don't know if those cops in Chicago are supposed to be talking to civilians when they're on duty.  We don't have police patrols on foot here, they are all in cars, although I think they ride bicycles on Mackinac Island.  We do have cops who periodically visit the schools to give presentations on various subjects.  Maybe Uncle Ken could arrange for something like that in his building.  Your downtown office must have some kind of public relations officer who could facilitate it. 

just a little more chat about police officers

What I was talking about when I was talking about talking to a cop, I mean police officer, was not trying to talk myself out of trouble, or idle chit chat, but asking about the situation with blm.  Under my debunked theory of the method of The Liberal Agenda where if parties have a problem between them they can calmly and honestly talk to each other and work it through, I don't think that can happen between civilians and police officers.  But I think I have exhausted this topic so perhaps it is time to move on.

Old Dog had a link recently that spoke of the cops of our youth, and I remember that the idea that you could bribe a cop was pretty common, and it seems like for good reason.  People still joke about it, but I don't know if it is still prevalent.  What is most common now is the cops that beat confessions out of suspects, and rogue cops in special units who infiltrate drug gangs and then become part of them.  

Since that looting episode in early August things have been remarkably calm.  The bridges have been down and the demonstrations have been small and peaceful.  I wonder what happened with the dim bulbs that were tearing down all those statues.  It was a big deal and then it stopped as soon as it started.  I like to think they came to their senses, but I suspect it was just the new shiny thing at the time and lost its luster soon,  

And the shootings at demonstrations seem to have stopped.  Speaking of which, remember those cops who got shot in Louisville?  That certainly seemed to be a big thing, but now, over a week later there has been no further information.

The cops are out in force now, a couple squad cars are positioned on upper Wacker 24/7.  As you walk downtown you will come across a knot of officers every two or three blocks.  

I would kind of like to speak to them, oh just to say a top of the morning to them, but they are not much for eye contact.  I wonder what they think of us civilians strolling down the street in our masks coming and going as we please, unencumbered by a holster and pistol and a bulletproof jacket, and the task of enforcing order.  Do they have that dim view that comes from seeing humanity as its worse?  Do they think we are thinking of how to defund them or to make changes in the police contract that will make it easier for them to be indicted?  

I don't know what to make of Beagles' in that St Ignance Incident.  Was the cop kind of waiting around for a bribe?  Was he enchanted by Beagle's surprising openness, and decided to while away an hour or two in not over friendly nor obsequious conversation.  Just two ships that passed in the night I suppose.

A Close Call

 In the early 1990s I was pulled over by the Cheboygan City Police around 3:00AM. Generally, the only people on the road at that time of the morning are cops and drunks, and the only reason the cops are out there is to catch the drunks.  When he asked me how much I'd had to drink, I told him around 12 beers, which was the truth.  What he didn't ask, and I didn't think to tell him, was that those 12 beers had been spread out over a period of 12 hours.  This meant I would have been legal except that I had drunk four or five of those beers in about two hours just before the bar closed.  (Michigan bars are required to close at 2:30, with last call being served by 2:00.)  The bar was in St. Ignace, about a half hour drive from Cheboygan.  If the cop had given me the Breathalyzer test shortly after he first stopped me, it would have been "Do not pass 'Go', do not collect $200." but, for some reason, he stalled around asking me questions for an hour hand a half before giving me the test, by which time I had sobered up enough to be just barely legal.

Right after I told him about the 12 beers, the cop asked me if I thought I was in any kind of shape to be driving.  I replied, "Well I feel fine, but what do I know?  You are a professional, if you say that I'm drunk, then I must be drunk."  That pretty well set the tone for the rest of the conversation.  I never argued with him, but I didn't kiss his ass either.  I suppose I talked to him the same way I would talk to anybody who I had just met for the first time, "friendly but not overly familiar, neither condescending nor obsequious."  The cop was pretty civil to me in turn, except when he got a little angry after I passed the Breathalyzer test.  I don't blame him for that, I was as surprised as he was.  

He seemed to be obsessed with the notion that I had gotten a six pack to go and drank it on the way home, although I repeatedly assured him that I had not.  At one point he asked permission to search my truck, which I granted.  I could have made him get a warrant, but I knew he wasn't going to find anything, so there was no point in that.  I never encouraged him to speed up the process or slow it down either.  Like I said, he was a professional and I wasn't about to tell him how to do his job.  Towards the end, he asked me to do some things like walk a straight line and touch my nose with my finger.  I no problem doing any of that until he told me to stand on one foot while holding my arms straight against my sides, which I could not do.  I wasn't sure I could even do that when sober, but I tried it later at home and I could.  

Before he let me go, the cop gave me a speeding ticket, 35 in a 25.  I had driven that stretch of road many times and I honestly thought the speed limit was 35, but I checked it the next day and, sure enough, it was posted at 25.  I paid a $50 fine for that, which was much cheaper than a drunk driving conviction.  All things considered, it could have been worse.

Just Passing Through

I only saw that crane for a few minutes out the window and there was no opportunity for a photo.   I have a trail camera that I could set up if I thought it was hanging around, but I haven't seen it since, which leaves my to believe that it was just passing through.  My internet search turned up reports of a few sightings in Southern Michigan this summer, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were all of the same bird that I saw.  My guess is that it got separated from the migrating Wisconsin flock and came up the wrong side of Lake Michigan in the spring.  I also learned that whooping cranes sometimes hang out with the more common sandhill cranes.  Indeed, I saw a sandhill near my whooper, so it shouldn't have any trouble finding its way back south this fall.  At this point, my sighting would be considered an "unconfirmed report" by the local authorities, so I doubt they would take it seriously.  I did report it to the International Crane Foundation via their website since they said they were interested in any whooping crane sightings.  They said they would put me on their email list and keep me posted about any future sightings. 

I saw something about those yooperlites  on TV awhile back.  I think they have only been found around Lake Superior.

Maybe retail clerks were a poor choice of examples. I was trying to think of how you talk to somebody who you are trying to get along with in a reasonable manner who is not a relative, close friend, or your boss at work.  I haven't dealt with the police a lot in my life, but I could tell you a few interesting stories that might better illustrate my point.  I will try to put something together over the weekend. 

For the birds

 ...I have been finding it difficult to focus on police brutality with whooping cranes on my mind.  No really, this is a big deal!

That is a big deal, Mr. Beagles.  I remember the story of how the whooping crane was nearly driven to the brink of extinction and I think the pesticide DDT had something to do with it, making their eggshells too fragile for survival in the wild.  I may be mis-remembering but I think Rachel Carson's book, Silent Spring, had something to do with the revival of the whooping crane population.

Did you get any photos?  This is the kind of story that your local  newspaper would love to jump on, maybe even send a reporter.  "Area conservationist creates habitat for endangered species," or fake news to that effect.

I don't know how often Mr. Beagles crosses the big bridge to the UP but I just read about something that was news to me, Yooperlites.  These are fluorescent rocks that are found along the shores of Lake Superior.  Beaglesonia and its environs are a constant source of surprise to me, a reminder of a different reality that is too easy to forget.

-----

But how do you talk to a cop?  I don't know.

You seemed to have been quite the rascal in your youth, Uncle Ken, with a lot of experience dealing with police officers of different jurisdictions.  I feel like a regular goody-two-shoes, never having anything more serious than traffic violations on the official record.

From my experience and offhand conversations with my sister, don't call them cops; "police officer" is the preferred term near as I can tell.  If circumstances require me to interact with the police the first words out of my mouth are "Excuse me, Officer" and I take it from there.  It can be a subtle dance of social interaction and you never know how it will end but it's always ended well for me.  Have I ever made a payoff or skated after being caught using/holding a controlled substance?  I'm not saying, but I may have been a bit of a rascal myself.  For a good review of how it used to be in Chicago, check this out.

 

 

sigh

 A cop is not at all like a retail clerk.  Nobody says that a non-retail clerk could never understand the nature of the job of a retail clerk.  A retail clerk has never put me in jail or saved my life.  If I tell the clerk at the Jewel that the clerk at Walgreens cheated me out of five bucks, the Jewel clerk will not think that I am dissing all retail clerks.

Yes I should have done something to thank that cop.  I think about that a lot.

Rare Bird Sighted in Beaglesonia

 I saw a whooping crane in our marsh the other day, and have been spending most of my internet time looking them up since then.  I have been reading Uncle Ken's posts, but I have been finding it difficult to focus on police brutality with whooping cranes on my mind.  No really, this is a big deal!  You're talking about a snow white bird that stands five feet tall and hasn't been seen in these parts for a century or more.  

Whooping cranes have been brought back from the brink of extinction in our lifetimes.  Once extant throughout North America, the surviving population in the 1940s was 15 to 20 birds that nested in Canada and wintered in Texas.  My Audubon Field Guide to North American birds, published in 1977, lists their number at 50.  According to the International Crane Foundation, the current population as of 2019 stands at 849, including 500 in the original flock and some 150 birds in captivity.  The crane I saw probably strayed from a migratory contingent of about a hundred birds that nests in central Wisconsin and winters in Florida.  This group was re-introduced in Wisconsin about 20 years ago, and was taught how to fly to Florida by a guy in an ultralight aircraft made up to look like a giant crane.  I am not making this up!  I know there was a fictional movie like that about geese, but the movie people got the idea from the real crane plane, not the other way around.  Unfortunately, the FAA subsequently banned this technique, but the Wisconsin cranes had already learned their lesson and have been making the trip on their own every year since. 

In answer to your question Uncle Ken, the way you talk to a policeman is the same way retail clerks and customers talk to each other.  Okay, the way they're supposed to talk to each other: friendly but not overly familiar, and neither condescending nor obsequious.  Also, you probably should have thanked those cops who pulled you out of that burning car.  They likely didn't expect you to do that in the condition you were in at the time, but a nice note to their supervisor or the local newspaper afterwards would have been appreciated.

how do you talk to a cop?

By most accounts the cops at the 1968 Democratic convention were pretty brutal.  A little less than forty years later I was in a demonstration protesting the Iraq invasion and they were most cordial. They lined both sides of Michigan Avenue and if you wanted to get off or get on at any point they were like very good Sir, here we go.

The first Black Lives Matter marches that came down State Street were peaceful but I didn't like the attitude of the protestors,  From 21 floors up they seemed to be all in the face of the cops, and on tv and in the newspapers you could see them yelling in the faces of cops who appeared to be taking it all in stoically.  I was thinking sure this is all against police brutality, and sure some cops are brutal, but that doesn't mean that particular cop in whose face the protestors were yelling was one of them,  Maybe he just wanted to be home with the wife and the kiddies, and those marches were endless one after another.

Of course it was only a few of the protestors that were in the faces of the cops,  Most of them were well behaved and I think it is safe to assume that they were expressing their objection to police brutality in a lawful manner, and I don't see where we can see anything wrong with that.

Early this spring we had the much more tumultuous demonstrations leading to rioting and looting,  One side said there were innocent protestors upholding their first amendment and the cause, and the rioters and looters were a different group.  The other side said they are all the same,  Then the shootings in Kenosha, then in Oregon and it seemed like we going to get into war in the streets,  But that was three weeks ago and nothing much has happened since then.

But the question that started these posts was how do you talk to a cop?  Like that beer summit that Obama has with that scholar guy which I admit didn't seem to change anything, but at least they had it, maybe it was worth something.  But how do you talk to a cop?  I don't know.

another story

In 1965 my parents bought a new car, an Oldsmobile, and that summer, back from college and working at a job packing bibles by Canal and Archer they let me drive the old car, a 1960 white Ford that I liked to call the white tornado.  Although I never paid them a penny for it, it became my car.  I drove it to work and around with my pals that summer.  I was drinking by then, but I was always careful to leave the car behind when I did.

That fall I was allowed to drive it down to Champaign.  It was exciting to see all my college buddies and in my excitement my no drinking and driving maxim went by the by.

The Illinois Central goes over the city of Champaign on several viaducts and I ran into one of them, hit the supports that separate the two different lanes of traffic.  I was passed out and the car began to burn.  When the cops came across me the fire was getting close to the gas tank.  Risking their lives they pulled me out and some seconds later the car exploded.

I never thanked them.  I was in the hospital for a couple days.  My parents had got a call from the University and all the way down they weren't sure if I was alive or dead.  But you know what they say about drunks.  I was fine.  I had totaled the white tornado, and scared them to death, but I was fine, and they were just glad of that, and I pretty much skated through the entire situation.

But I never thanked the cops.  I don't know, I never thought about it, was that a thing people did?  I was starting my junior year of college and I had classes to go to, and I have to say that I never gave it a second's thought.

I don't know if the cops expected a thank you.  I don't remember any incidents where rescue victims thanked the police at the time, like I said, I never even thought of it.  Maybe the cops would have said, like they do in the movies, just doing my job.  Just doing their job like they would be doing those two subsequent occasions when they arrested me for public intoxication. which I don't hold against them because I was guilty.  

But it's a thing to think about when I rail about police unions and casual racism and all that jazz.  What about the time they saved my life?

talking to a cop

The question is not so much why did no cop try to stop Van Dyke, as it is why afterwards all the cops and their superiors who weren't there covered up for him.  He had just murdered a guy in cold blood, this was the sort of thing that gave cops a bad name, made them hated by many in the ghetto, so that their job there became more difficult, and will cost the citizens, who pay their wages, a lot of money.

One answer that pops up is they thought they could get away with it.  They have done this plenty of times before.  They have all these rules that make it hard for them to be investigated, the boards that are supposed to oversee them are loaded with ex-cops and have almost never come out against an accused cop.  They almost got away with this one.  Getting the tape that showed what happened occurred only after a long and difficult battle.

The lesson of Laquan McDonald is not so much that somebody snapped and shot him.  It is that so many cops, paid by the citizens, and sworn to obey the law connived to let him skate on it.

But as has often been pointed out cops have a tough job, they do indeed see humanity at its worst.  Their job is dangerous and they don't get that much respect. Likely no non-cop can't understand their job.  Of course many vets claimed that nobody who hadn't been to Vietnam could understand what it was like.  Black people often complain that nobody who isn't black can understand what it is like to be black.  Does this mean non vets can't talk about Vietnam, that whites cannot speak about blacks, and that non cops can't discuss things with cops?

But it's tough.  I have known that cop neighbor of mine for some time and have never discussed cop stuff with him until this time when I was going to meet him and his girlfriend for pizza but she couldn't make it so it was just me and him, and peripheral matters led to the Laquan case.  

I was only able to broach the matter with him because I have known him sometime.  There was a cop who used to come into the Ten Cat, who I knew a little, but just a little, and I can't imagine asking him, hey what about that LaQuan shooting?

The truth is I'm afraid of cops.  Between the ages of twenty and twenty-two I was arrested five times.  Two of those were for drunk and disorderly, no problem there, I was guilty, they were just doing their jobs.

One of the others was for writing with chalk on a sidewalk,  This was because I was hanging out at a house where they thought we were smoking marijuana.  We weren't, it would be a couple years before our group ever saw marijuana.  They just wanted an excuse to get into the house and look for it, and of course they never found any.  I had to pay a fine of like ten bucks, which isn't much, but still it's for doing nothing.

The other two were more serious.  One was a couple years later when I was sitting in an apartment where by this time we were smoking marijuana, but not at this particular time and I had none on me.  Still I was arrested, had to spend a night or two in jail before I was bailed out and ended up having to pay a lawyer a considerable fee.

The other was for assault with a deadly weapon.  What me?  I think I have discussed this one before.  The gist of it was there were riots in Berkeley and my friend and I were passersby examining the remains when the cops plucked us off the street and arrested us both.  Again a night or two in jail before being bailed out, but charges against me were dropped soon.  My friend, on the other hand, was only a hung jury from doing ten to twenty.

When I was in the Oakland Hall of Justice, talking to my lawyer in that case, a cop suddenly appeared in the vestibule chasing somebody but not sure which way the guy went.  There were maybe ten civilians in the vestibule, blacks, hippies, and some lawyers.  Suddenly somebody came up behind the cop, kicked him hard in the ass and the cop went ass over tea kettle down a flight of stairs, and the kicker, split the scene.  The cop was backup from the flight of stairs in ten seconds, and scanned the area for the kicker but didn't see him. Then he looked up at the bystanders and was just about to ask which way did the kicker go, but he realized that all the bystanders were black or hippies or their lawyers and none of them were going to tell him anything, and he took off.  

This was all long ago, but still I have reason to fear the police.  But it's not just that that keeps me from asking an actual cop in flesh and blood, what was the deal with Laquan.  I also respect them.  More on that in the next post.

Cops and Robbers

 Chicago police have long been notorious for bribery and other forms of corruption.  That's why the feds sent in Elliot Ness to tackle Al Capone, all the local cops had been bought off.  I remember there was a big scandal about cops taking bribes when I was a kid.  I don't remember if anything ever came out of it, for all I know they're still doing it.  One thing they did was rig the blue bubble lights on top of the squad cars so that they recorded every time the light was turned on.  If, at the end of his shift, a cop had turned on his light more times than he had written tickets, he had some 'splaining to do.  The way the cops dealt with that was, they didn't use the bubble light any more than was absolutely necessary.  If they wanted to pull you over, they would honk their horn and flash their headlights.  That might mean they just wanted to talk to you about something or give you a warning.  If the blue bubble light was on, however, you knew you were going to get a ticket, do not pass "Go" do not collect $200.

Then there was the case of Richard Morrison the Babbling Burglar.  I wasn't sure if I remembered it correctly, so I looked it up to be sure.  Wiki didn't know what I was talking about, but Cortana took me right to it.  Man, that girl is good!  Turned out that I remembered it pretty well, except that I thought he had died in that assassination attempt.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-07-07-ct-per-flash-summerdale-0707-20130707-story.ht

Old Dog brought up some good points in his latest post, one being that cops mostly deal with criminals and other cops, which is bound to affect their general attitudes.  I remember when I was subbing for the day shift custodian at the junior high and this bunch of grown men showed up a 5:00 AM to play basketball.  After an hour or so of this foolishness, they showered, shaved, and dressed for work.  They were all cops, city, county, and state.  I wondered who was protecting Cheboygan while all these guys were playing around like a bunch of kids, but I suppose that 5:00 AM is a slow time in the police business.  My buddy and I used to get up at that hour to go fishing at Marquette and Sherman parks, and that was the safest time to ride a bicycle on the streets of Chicago.  Little traffic and no hoodlums, we had the park to ourselves.   

Some cop thoughts

 Old Dog's brother-in-law is a cop, I wonder if he has ever talked to him about cop stuff.

Very rarely.  The one thing I remember distinctly is when that guy (McDonald?) was shot twelve times.  I asked him why didn't anybody step up to stop him and he looked at me like I was nuts.  The impression I got was the other cops knew the guy snapped and they weren't going to make a move until his magazine was empty; they didn't want to be the next target.  Don't forget, that cop was one of their own.

I don't think any non-cop can understand the nature of their job and I am amazed that they don't all become flat insane.  They deal with  things that no rational human should  have to endure.  One moment you could be dealing with some jerk who ran a red light and then your next call is to settle a domestic beef where the wife is clobbered but won't leave the man she loves and he loves her, too.  You might close out your shift digging an abused child's decomposed corpse out of a pile of trash.  How does a sane person deal with these situations?

There are only two types of people that cops usually deal with on a regular basis, fellow cops and fuck-ups.  I am not surprised that they often develop certain attitudes that I do not agree with but I am uncertain about any racial component.  Many of Chicago's police chiefs have been black, and a few black friends of mine have said that black cops are tougher on black suspects than the white cops.

In any case it's a big mess with a lack of trust on all sides.  I've never been jerked around by the cops and I take great pains not to give them any reason to.  Why give a guy with a gun, baton, and a radio to call his pals a hard time?  Maybe he just dug that poor kid out of the garbage and he has to take it out on something, someone, and you don't want it to be you.

 

 

Don't bring down my house

By law city workers have to live in the city. This includes teachers, firemen, and cops and whomever.  It seems like the cops resent it the most.  They tend to live in enclaves in the far northwestern and southwestern parts of the city, bungalows and tidy lawns and all that.  

I was reading about a cop festival they were holding in Jefferson Park Wednesday.  I will try to explain it, but here is the article if you want to read it.  https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2020/9/16/21439996/chicago-police-rally-reform-fraternal-order-fop-sposato-taliaferro-napolitano-jefferson-park

It was a Back the Blue thing.  A neighborhood of cops celebrating themselves. the policeman is your friend thing, nothing political.

But then this guy Catanzara, who I've spoken of before, a bad cop who has many citations, and to my dismay has been elected head of the Fraternal Order of Police.  To him any time there is an incident the cops are always, every single time, in the right.  And any critic of the cops' behavior is an anarchist, or whatever, trying to tear down civilization.

So anyway he got involved in this and sort of turned it into a Trump rally.  I expect Trump is pretty popular with a lot of cops, but most of the citizens of the city hate him.  A couple alderman that were going to attend, figuring that they would just make a little speech, maybe pin a medal, stuff like that, backed out when they learned it was to be a Trump rally, 

Catanzara blew his top, accused the mayor of making them back off, and then saying he was going to find candidates to run against the aldermen who backed out.

This is insurrection,  Unions back candidates all the time, but it is just money and it is just for union stuff.  It's not a matter of do you back electricians or carpenters, and they don't try to take over the city government.

I guess it is a hollow threat because I can't imagine the sort of people that Catanzara would get to run would have a chance of upsetting a sitting alderman.  

The cops, outside their enclaves in the corners of the city are not that popular and we are paying their salaries.  So what the fuck is going on?

I've tried to talk to that neighbor cop of mine but ran into a brick wall when he claimed that Laquan McDonald was lunging at a cop when  the cop shot him, and the video showed the opposite.  Old Dog's brother-in-law is a cop, I wonder if he has ever talked to him about cop stuff.  I am not asking him to reveal anything, just wondering if he had ever talked to him.

There is animosity between the cops and the ghetto.  It's not as simple as black vs white because some black cops are brutal too, and ghetto people hate the cops because of the way they act.  If the cops would admit it when they were wrong, and allow the cop who did wrong to be punished they would get along better with the cops.

Occam would not be happy with Beagles's segregationist approach.  The sentence is simple but the implementation would be anything but.  What would the boundaries be, how would the income be shared, what degree of autonomy would the ghetto have, would there be separate laws for all these different cities Beagles wants to break up the city into?  Very impractical.  And there is something disturbing in the way all his grandiose plans to solve something so often is based on separating the races.

A house standing is simpler and stronger than a house divided against itself.  And come to think of it, that goes for Catanzara too.

Maybe I Don't Understand

Maybe I don't understand the police brutality issue as well as I thought I did.  I assumed that the ghetto people resented the police as alien outsiders who came into their neighborhoods to dominate the locals and tell them what to do.  I also assumed that the police resented the ghetto people right back and went in there with chips on their shoulders.  I think even Occam would agree that the best remedy for that situation would be to keep the White cops out of the Black neighborhoods.  Of course all criminal suspects should be prosecuted, and considered innocent until proven guilty.  Uncle Ken may be right in saying that's all that would be needed to solve this problem.  

How About Legal Philosophy?

 That "reasonable and prudent" thing has been around for a long time, the first I heard of it was in a book, "You and the Law", published by Reader's Digest back in the 1970s.  To elaborate on the "threatened" part: Deadly force is generally justified against an unarmed attacker if he puts you in "fear of death or great bodily harm".  Of course your feeling of fear might be hard to prove or disprove in a court of law, so the legal question is, "Would a reasonable and prudent person in that situation feel fear?"  Of course every case is different, and the law might read differently in different states, but that's the general gist of it.  

Here's that thing I was going to tell you about concerning the lockdown:

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan/2020/09/14/group-gathers-signatures-to-petition-against-gov-whitmers-emergency-powers/

This article is kind of sketchy, but I can fill you in on the details if anybody's interested.

more philosophy, less politics

As far as Beagles' plan of separating the white and black communities, if the problem it is supposed to solve is police brutality why don't we apply Occam's razor and punish the police who do it?  If they know they can be punished for it won't they be less likely to do it?  Doesn't that sound simpler than having parallel governments?  Oh and another thing most of the recent cases have not happened in the ghetto.

The problem of punishing brutal cops is that they have all kinds of loopholes written into their contracts that protect them and these would have to be taken care of in a long and arduous city by city process.  

As you know I don't really approve of blm's leaderless structure and nebulous goals. but early on when their protests were not violent, they seemed to be making progress in that there was growing public support of blm and of making changes in police contracts.  That changed when they became violent, and especially since some blowhard made that speech about how looting was just fine and dandy.  

My sister read an article about how people are dropping out of blm because of things like that speech about looting.  I haven't read it, but I googled are people dropping out of black lives matter and saw there were a lot of posts about it.  The bridges have been down for a month now, and there have been no violent protests in the city for at least that long.  Well good I don't like violence, so glad to hear that my prediction of both sides arming themselves and shooting it out has not borne fruit, yet.

That thing about a reasonable and prudent person feeling threatened is a recent development and not a good one.  If I say I felt threatened who is to know what was in my heart?  It is a favored defense of cops who do wrong.  

Rittenhouse has a movement lawyer, not just some guy trying to get him off so I imagine we will be hearing a lot of hot air from him.

I rather like politics, but it seems of late that it has been all politics and nothing else.  Does anybody else have an opinion about the Myth of Sisyphus?  How about Prometheus?  Hero or troublemaker?  Should Socrates have drank that hemlock?

Here, not here

Taking a bit longer break this week and will post again in a few days.

Carry on.

 

 

It Depends

I just looked it up.  Open carry is legal in Michigan but not in Illinois.  In Wisconsin it's legal except in certain places where it's prohibited, my source didn't specify which places.  In Illinois, a gun must be unloaded and enclosed in a case or disassembled to render it incapable of firing except when lawfully hunting or target shooting.  In Michigan you need a permit to carry a concealed weapon, but not to carry one out in the open as long as you don't  "brandish" it.  Last I heard, they were still arguing about the legal definition of the word "brandish".  Furthermore, if your gun is creating a disturbance in a public place, that's "disturbing the peace", which is a separate law.  I'm pretty sure that it's illegal to threaten somebody with a firearm in all states, but then we must legally define the word "threaten".  Generally, the legal question is whether a "reasonable and prudent person" would feel threatened.  Personally, I feel that no reasonable and prudent person would even attend one of those protests, but I'm not a lawyer. 

This Kenosha case raises a couple other interesting legal questions as well.  Wisconsin law prohibits anyone under the age of 18 from possessing a firearm, and Mr. Rittenhouse was 17 at the time of the incident.  I understand that his lawyer is claiming that law to be unconstitutional because militia members in the 18th Century were often younger than 18.  This leads us to the militia issue.  Mr. Rittenhouse claims to be a member of some kind of militia, maybe we should call that a "self styled militia" because the official militia in the US has been the National Guard for a long time.  We have been hearing about these unofficial militias for some time, and I'm surprised that nobody has forced a legal ruling on that.  Maybe this time.

The problem I'm trying to address with my secession proposal is the police brutality that has been in the news lately.  All the cases I have heard of have involved city police.  If the ghetto people had their own city and their own police force the only people they could protest against would be each other.  There is nothing unusual about suburbs or even enclaves within a city being autonomous in municipal matters.  What is unusual is taking existing city territory and detaching it to form a separate jurisdiction.  I don't know if that's ever been done, but it seems like it could be.  If land can be annexed by a city, why can't it be detached from a city?  

self-defense

 I think the first ghetto was in Venice, or one of those Italian city-states of the Renaissance, and maybe were more protective than punitive.  All the Jews were ordered to live there and I think they had some kind of curfew when they had to return to it at night.  

I think black neighborhoods began to be called ghettos about the time that we were kids, maybe five or ten years before Elvis sang that famous song.  Originally black people were not allowed by law to live anywhere else, and if they knew what was good for them they didn't go anywhere else, well maybe if they had to to get to their jobs, but they certainly didn't linger. 

Those apartheid laws were gone by the time we were kids but if they moved into certain white areas like Gage Park they could have their house burned down, and as far as even going there until maybe forty years ago I never saw a black face in Gage Park because they would be putting themselves in danger.

But seceding, that sounds like a step backwards.  Didn't Abraham Lincoln say A house divided against itself cannot stand?  Shouldn't all Americans be standing together?  I'm not sure what problem Beagles thinks this is supposed to cure, and it sounds very un-American to me.  And just for myself I have to say I am getting sick of peckerwoods telling us how to run our cities.

Speaking of peckerwoods I am thinking of that Rittenhouse guy.  We still don't have all the facts, but what I am hearing is that he went into the other side's area brandishing his super gun and when they saw it and tried to take it away from him, clearly sensing danger, he shot three of them.  His defense will likely be self defense because when they tried to take away his weapon they were attacking him.  But weren't they kind of in their rights?  Wasn't what they were doing self-defense also?  Did they have to wait until he was actually firing on them to try to disarm him?  Isn't that a little late?

I understand that some of the proteste/looters were armed also.  If they came at the cops with guns drawn I think the cops would have been right to shoot them.

Like I said we don't know all the facts yet, but if I feel threatened by a guy with a gun do I have to wait until he is aiming at me and has his finger on the trigger before I can do anything about it?

Ghetto Culture

  Actually, the ghetto is not the ghetto anymore because the inhabitants are no longer forced to live there, but that's what I'll call it for lack of a better name.  It's human nature for any group of people who spend any significant amount of time together to organize themselves into a self validating social group with its own cultural norms.  This can happen quite quickly, in a matter of days or even hours but, the longer they are together, the more their cultural norms become distinct from those of other surrounding cultures.  A person born into a culture generally tends to remain in it unless acted upon by an outside force.  He is not likely to abandon his home culture unless he is convinced that he would be better off without it.  Even then, his own people will frequently try to talk him out of it, both for his own good and theirs.  It doesn't help if the culture to which he aspires wants nothing to do with him.

When a White cop goes into the ghetto, he is viewed as an outsider from an alien culture trying to impose its will on the locals.  The cop knows this, and probably feels the same way about them.  This is why I think everybody would be better off if the ghettos around the country seceded from their cities and formed cities of their own.  They wouldn't need to build a wall around themselves, any more than the existing suburbs and enclaves have done.  All they need is their own mayor, city council, police force, and fire department.  The mayor, city council, and firemen can be part time.  I'm not sure about the police, maybe a small full time force could be augmented by volunteer reservists who would be called up only when needed.  If things got really out of hand, there is also the County Mounties, the State Police, and the National Guard to back them up, but the primary first responders should be the local guys.

 

fighting

All Chicago schools get the same amount of money per student, as I assume Detroit schools do.  And there are some Chicago schools that do much better than others as I am sure is also the case with Detroit.

The big difference is in the students.  In middle class households the kids generally have a stable family and they can trust the police and their neighbors and if there is some kind of wrong they can go to the appropriate source and have it redressed.  Poor kids often don't have stable parents and they can't necessarily trust the police and they have to fight for everything they get or want.  That is the hardest problem teaching those kids, not that they fight the teacher but that they fight each other, all the time, I remember taking a bunch of kindergarten kids in Cabrini Green down to the playground and fights broke out before we even got outside.

The thing is middle class kids can expect fairness in their doings and if they behave well generally people will treat them well.  If they behave that way in the ghetto everything they have will be taken from them.  The teacher tells them not to fight if they are wronged, but the parents tell them fight for everything, and sadly the parents are right.

I wish when Beagles posted a link he would add what the link is about, because if it's something I know already it's annoying.  I had read the story about that Norwegian guy wanting Trump to get the Nobel prize maybe five times before I clicked on the link and saw it again.

Chicago is Not Detroit

I guess I should have known that because we have discussed it in the past.  Last I heard, Detroit was 80% Black, 15% White, and 5%  "other".  Maybe the reason Chicagoans get along so well is that nobody has a majority.  Your police force, on the other hand, seems to be a good old boy fraternity that needs to be broken up, or at least shaken up. 

I understand that there is a qualitative disparity between Michigan school districts, but not between individual schools within each district.  That's because some districts serve areas with larger populations and thus higher tax bases.  I suppose the Detroit schools are not as good as the suburban schools, but I have never heard of one school in Detroit being better than any other school in Detroit.  I assume that the Chicago schools are all in the same district, so why would one school in Chicago be any better than any other school in Chicago?

Here's one for the "You ain't seen nothin' yet" department:

https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB18SDPl?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare

this and that

I was just talking to my sister a few days ago about things said and things unsaid.  There are times you wish you had said something but you didn't, and there are times when you said something and wish you hadn't, and the latter way outnumbers the former.

But that is more for social situations, here at the institute we want a little latitude, and because we are all gentlemen nobody takes offense.

My darkling plain worry doesn't seem to be coming to pass, but it's early yet.  From what I hear that teenager is likely to skate.  The killer in Portland was in turn killed by the cops and indications are that he had it coming.  But details are slow coming out.  The teenager has high-powered lawyers and the Portland shooter is dead.  

And rather than the two sides shooting at each other the situation has calmed down.  There are cops parked along Wacker, blue bubblegums blazing, but the bridges have not been raised in about a month.  Those blm spokespeople who praised looting have not had a word to say of late, and maybe this is all for the good.  

I was confused by Beagles's questions about why the cop population is not in proportion to the civilian population.  I assumed it was because he wanted to know why having a majority (although the blacks, whites, and hispanics each have about a third of the population the blacks have the smallest third, so maybe he was assuming that the hispanics and blacks would unite against the whites, but that doesn't happen all that often) and the mayor the blacks didn't just use that power to make the police force majority black.  This was in accordance with his theory that the groups are always trying to take over each other and that is why I discussed that theory.

It is possible that he was using the disparity to make a case that racism isn't as prevalent as it once was, but that didn't seem likely.

The white equivalent of low faluting would be redneck or white trash or hill billy.  I think there is also a sizeable middle faluting class in both groups that Beagles does not take account of.

I agree that some blacks would not want to be cops because that would be selling out to the man, but there are still a lot who would like to be cops because the pay is very good, and they already live in plenty of danger.  But due to the conditions in the ghetto a sizeable percentage have police records, also the schools in the ghetto are pretty crappy so they don't do well on academic stuff.

Nobody interested in the myth of Sisyphus?  Anybody seen any good movies lately?

Oh how about this?  A woman who claims Trump raped her is suing Trump for defamation because he claims he never even knew her.  Bill Barr's Justice Department is claiming that since he claimed not to know her while he was president that makes the denial a presidential act and therefore the Justice Department is using it's considerable firepower to defend him.  And of course we shall all pay for that.  Oh just a molehill in the mountain of Trump's atrocities, but the twisted logic sticks in my craw. 

That Was Helpful

 Aside from his disparaging comments about my "taking over" theory, Uncle Ken's last post was helpful to my understanding of the issue.  Also, the real life conversation I had with my daughter yesterday shed some additional light on the subject.  It seems all Blacks are not the same any more than all Whites are the same.  (Truth be known, my parents taught me the same thing many years ago, but I seem to have forgotten it in my old age, for which I blame television.)  First you've got your ghetto Blacks, and then you've got your high falutin' Blacks.  Of course there are also high falutin' Whites, but I don't know the White equivalent of ghetto Blacks.  Neither the high falutin' Blacks nor the high falutin' Whites want to be cops when they grow up, they want to be doctors, lawyers, teachers and preachers.  The ghetto Blacks don't want to be cops when they grow up because that would mean selling out to The Man.  That leaves only the White equivalent of ghetto Blacks to become cops when they grow up.

Most corona victims do not display symptoms until a couple weeks after they catch the disease, which is why they tell us to "self quarantine" for 14 days after we suspect we have been exposed.  If someone catches the virus at a biker rally, a Trump rally, a protest rally, or a counter protest rally, it would be premature to declare him virus free the next day.

Most of the cost of firewood and other forest products goes to pay for shipping and handling.  The longer the shipping and the more people handling it, the more a retail customer will have to pay for it.  There is also the sales volume factor.  A supermarket that sells a little firewood on the side has to charge more for it than a professional logger who delivers it to your yard with a ten ton dump truck.  Certain high falutin' grillers insist that genuine mesquite wood from the Sonora Desert makes the food taste better than regular ordinary firewood, but there aren't enough of them to justify hauling it to Chicago by the semi load.  Other high falutin' homeowners will gladly pay top dollar for a couple arm loads of pretty birch logs to stack beside their gas fireplaces just for decorative effect.  I am reminded of the two Polish gentlemen from Chicago who rented a truck, drove it to the UP of Michigan,  filled it with Christmas trees that they bought for a dollar a piece,  and then sold them back in Chicago for a dollar a piece.  Said the one Polish gentleman to the other, "You know we didn't make any money on this trip", to which the other replied, "Yeah I know, I think we need a bigger truck."

Tuesday Quickie

Sometimes you feel like a chump, sometimes you don't.  Only last week I wrote:

I was expecting a huge surge of cases from the biker rally in Sturgis but there have not been that many, relatively speaking.

Boy, did I miss the boat on that one!  The news today, from Mother Jones, is "Sturgis Motorcycle Rally Is Now Linked to More Than 250,000 Coronavirus Cases."

There is a good case to be made for keeping one's mouth shut.

-----

Last week I saw some plastic wrapped firewood at the local supermarket and I thought of that old log splitter, Mr. Beagles, and his preparations for the coming winter.  There must be more decorative fireplaces than I thought since most buildings around here use electric or gas for heating, but you never know.  Maybe the wood is being used for some fancy barbecue or grilling.  Anyhow, the price of that wood seemed exorbitant to me, it works out to $10 per cubic foot.  That means that a cord of wood costs over a thousand dollars according to my reckoning.  Does that sound expensive to you, Mr. Beagles, and represent a possible revenue stream?

I don't think Mr. Beagles is a big fan of YouTube but I found a channel that I think would be useful for the smooth operation of Beaglesonia.  It's called Project Farm and it's run by a guy who tests and compares all kinds of stuff, adhesives, paints, lubricants, duck tape, engine additives, fasteners, you name it.  He buys the stuff himself and pulls no punches, making all kinds of interesting test fixtures and protocols.  He talks fast, though, and packs a lot of information into each video and lets you make your own conclusion.  I'm not usually in the market for stuff like penetrating oil but it's fun to watch this guy put various brands to the test.  You can find him here.

taking over

The city population is pretty evenly divided between whites, blacks, and hispanics with whites a few percentage points over the other two groups.  Beagles is wondering why the majority of the Chicago police are white.  Well I have to believe that Beagles is going by his taking over theory that most of politics is a matter of the different ethnic groups fighting to take over each other.

It's a stupid theory.  It's not what is going on.  The blacks and the hispanics did not get together once the whites were in the minority and take over the police department, because that is not what people do.  Nor does a black mayor pack the force with black people as a way of taking over.  Currently our mayor is a black lesbian, does Beagles expect all the new hires to be black lesbians?

It was a crowded primary, about a dozen candidates.  The two leaders, both black women, who had less than 20 percent of the vote each went on to the runoff.  If you look at the map of the voting  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Chicago_mayoral_election#/media/File:Chicago_mayoral_election,_2019_first_round_results.svg  You will see that it follows the typical pattern: The T of the west south sides goes to the blacks.  The V of the northwest and southwest sides goes to the hispanics.  To the west are the conservative whites of the bungalow belt and to the east us lakeside liberals.

Well not exactly and that is because all whites did not vote for white candidates and all blacks did not vote for black candidates and all hispanics did not vote for hispanic candidates, because most people were not thinking that they had to vote for people of their ethnicity in order to keep other ethnicities from taking over, they are taking other things into account.  

The majority of cops are white because they always have been.  A lot of times it is passed on through families and that keeps it white, also there are standards for getting into the police academy which blacks and hispanics have a harder time meeting because in general they are poorer than whites.  The unions are made up of mostly white cops who want to turn their jobs over to their kids, and yes, many of them are racist and just plain don't like black people.

You have to live in the city to be a cop or a fireman or a teacher.  There are alcoves in the north and west sides that are heavily populated by city employees.

There are folks on the left and right that travel for these demonstrations. Probably a good number of them are up to no good.

Back in the early sixties the white people who went down to freedom ride were called outside agitators.  The inference was that without them everybody down south would be hunky dory.  Which was true for the white folks but not at all for the black folks.

Oh, and happy birthday Beagles.

Onward and Upward

 Okay, let's drop the lockdown thing for now because we don't seem to be getting anywhere with it.  There is a new development in the works that I have been reluctant to mention because I'm not sure if it's on the level.  If it is, I will have more to say about it if and when it comes to fruition.  

I believe I brought this up before, but it seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle:  Since non-Hispanic White people are a minority of the population in many cities, some of which even have Black mayors, why are a majority of the police in those cities still White?  If racism is at work here, it seem like it should be the other way around.  Detroit and Chicago lost their White majorities some 50 years ago.  All of the cops working back then should be retired or dead by now and, as they dropped out, should have been replaced by Blacks or Hispanics.  The union certainly wouldn't object to that, since these guys would be the union.  Also, don't you have to live within the city limits to work for the city?  

I said something the other day about those counter protestors "fighting back".  I guess I envisioned those guys defending their own neighborhoods, but it appears that's not the case.  I knew that kid who shot those people in Kenosha was from out of state, albeit only 15 miles out of state but, since then, I have heard both protestors and counter protestors alike referred to as "outside agitators".  I don't believe I've heard that phrase bandied about since the 60s.  It's like deja vu all over again.  

Here's something I just came across, it's along the lines of what we previously discussed about autonomous zones:

https://a.msn.com/r/2/BB18Gu1Q?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare

the myth of sisyphus

Looking back to August 23 almost two weeks ago when I allowed myself to be lured into arguing about the lockdown even though I knew better, even after I had vowed to never allow myself to be brought into that futile and agonizing experience, but I am a liberal and we liberals hold the agenda dearly and part of that is that the truth shall set you free and if you just sit down and explain things and keep your logical ducks in a row then just as the gentle rains melt those craggy mountainsides so can you lift the veil of ignorance and prejudice and show the other side the light, even though the orange-headed stranger has largely proven that to be false, it is the only arrow in our quiver and we are doomed like Sisyphus, were he an archer, to do it over and over again, because, well we don't know any better.

Anyway back to August 23 I see that I was talking about flappers, and greasers, and hippies, and I had meant to have a little discussion about stoners, before I entered the tangled labyrinth I have wasted the last two weeks on.  But anymore, now that I have mentioned Sisyphus I am beginning to wonder about him.  We all know the cartoon depiction of the long haired old guy in rags pushing that big boulder up the mountainside and I am pretty sure it is punishment for something, but I do not know what it is punishment for.  Off to the wikimobile.

Well he is the mythical king of Corinth and quite the prick, but also a very wily prick and there are several variations on the myth, but what he does to piss off the gods is he tricks death and chains him up so that for an unspecified time nobody dies, which you would think would be good, but things just get crowded and ailing people get no relief and the gods who like to kill people from time to time because that is their sport are deprived of their enjoyment, and the gods get together and chain him to that boulder, saying something like you think you are so damn smart why don't you roll this up the hill, and they don't come out and say this but I think Sisyphus is so proud of his wiliness that he somehow thinks he can achieve this which adds to his frustration,

Meanwhile on the darkling plain the police have killed the suspect in the killing that Patriots Prayer guy in Portland.  No further details at this time but there are many worries that over the Labor Day weekend the ignorant armies will be clashing and likely loaded for bear.

debunked

 What am I to make of this?  Are you agreeing then that the statements  are not equivalent?  You kind of equivocate on that by saying,  'maybe not.'  Well are they or aren't they?

Totally I agree that my chances of dying from the corona are greater without a national lockdown but are by no means certain.  But I never said it was certain.  You are the one that said I said that, which I didn't.

This is why I don't want to argue about the corona with you.  I get misquoted and what you say doesn't make any sense, and I take no joy in saying so.  

I have told you my reasons for thinking the lockdown works and you have not bothered to respond to any of them.

Henceforth I will describe your idea that lockdowns are ineffective by calling it your debunked theory and you can like it or lump it, or bunk or debunk it, or bunkity bunkity bunkity boo.  It's so hard to try to reason with you.

Let's Try Another Tack

  "The reason I would like a national lockdown is because I don't want to die of this disease.

 Uncle Ken seems to be saying that the only alternative to a lockdown is certain death.

These statements are not equivalent.

Maybe not, but let's look at it a different way:

1.  We have not had a national lockdown.

2.  Uncle Ken has not died of the disease.

3.  Therefore, a national lockdown is not necessary to keep Uncle Ken from dying of the disease.

petty bickering

  "The reason I would like a national lockdown is because I don't want to die of this disease.

 Uncle Ken seems to be saying that the only alternative to a lockdown is certain death.

These statements are not equivalent.

Give Me a Lockdown or Give Me Death

 "The reason I would like a national lockdown is because I don't want to die of this disease, " - Uncle Ken - 9/1/20

lockdown works but some will never understand and i am tired of wasting my time on it

Sometimes you come across the phrase that that somebody made something out of whole cloth.  Often it is incorrectly used to mean that someone is being truthful because whole cloth sounds like a good thing, but that is not the meaning it means well total bullshit.  

Such is the case with Uncle Ken seems to be saying that the only alternative to a lockdown is certain death.

I never said anything remotely like that.  I have no idea from what Beagles conjured that.  It is like I said Beagles seems to be saying I am an ignorant fellow and I reason from the heart not the mind.  Which is the impression I get.  I previously said I was no longer going to discuss lockdown with Beagles because it is useless, and then I somehow got lured into doing it again.  I have presented the facts, a little knowledge of science, math, and logic, would compel a reasonable to conclude lockdown works, but Beagles is not such a fellow and I will again wash my hands of this topic of conversation.

 What about all the people who supported the lockdowns and died anyway? 

What about all the people who never smoked and then got cancer?  Is this supposed to be an argument for or against anything?

Okay now I am through.  I will no longer discuss this issue.

the common enemy of an inept government heavily influenced by big business and foreign interests.

Hasn't that always been the perception of a lot of Americans?  What makes the current situation different?  The cellphone of course, the black community, and to a lesser extent the white community has known that the cops have long shown a more unpleasant side to black people than to white people, but until the cellphone it has been successfully covered up.  I think the current wave has begun with the killing of George Floyd, clear as a bell and lasting several minutes.  The first issue is shouldn't the cop be charged with this, didn't he wrongly kill a man?  I'm not sure what is going on with that right now, last I heard he is asking for charges to be dropped.  Anyway I don't see how anybody can say otherwise than that we shouldn't let these guys skate.

One reason these guys skate so often is because all sort of loopholes are written into cops contracts that make it impossible to fire them let alone charge them with a crime?  Isn't this wrong?  Shouldn't something be done about this?  This is a harder thing to do because you would have to do it city by city, contract by contract, but shouldn't we at least be starting on this?

These were the main items on the blm agenda, and I think that was right but it seems like their demands have expanded and gotten well a little loony.

It seems to me that if you want to discuss the current situation you have to take this shit into account rather than talking about big business, foreign interests, and ineptitude.

Hindsight

Uncle Ken seems to be saying that the only alternative to a lockdown is certain death.  What about all the people who supported the lockdowns and died anyway? I think I would have supported a national lockdown in the beginning, just as I supported the state lockdown in the beginning.  I seem to remember  that Uncle Ken wasn't so sure about it at first.  I believe his exact words were, "Can they do that?"  I assured him that presidents and governors can do a lot of things during a declared state of emergency but, not to worry, it's only temporary, "Thirty or sixty days, something like that."  Then they have to ask Congress or their state legislature for an extension.  If a national lockdown had been extended unilaterally and illegally like our Michigan lockdown was, I certainly would have been against that.  Now, after seeing what an expensive failure the state lockdowns turned out to be, I would not support a future lockdown, national, state, or local.    

In the days of the Cold War, it was not uncommon for Communists and their fellow travelers to call anybody who opposed them a Fascist.  I suppose that was left over from World War II when the Communists defeated the Fascists with a little help from the Americans and the other Allied powers.  Back in those days, the only difference was that a Fascist was a national socialist and a Communist was an international socialist, at least on paper.  Truth be known, Fascism was actually a front for German imperialism and Communism was a front for Russian imperialism.  Both isms commonly called anti-socialists "reactionaries", implying that socialism was a done deal and anybody who opposed it was living in the past.  Looking back on it, they may have been right, but I still want to be a reactionary when I grow up.

The First of September

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, I don't care.  Myself, I'll wear one when I go out and about and mingle with my fellow humans.  Much has been said and written about Covid-19 but I have the feeling that we still don't know much about it and its effects.  I was expecting a huge surge of cases from the biker rally in Sturgis but there have not been that many, relatively speaking.  As a pandemic it seems to be taking its own sweet time and we may find out that like the common cold (also a coronavirus) that it is unavoidable.  I expect that reasonable people will take reasonable precautions,  and that will be that.

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An old song by The Buffalo Springfield, "For What It's Worth," keeps popping into my head when I see news reports of the many civil disturbances we've been having.  "Battle lines being drawn..." indeed.  It's curious to me that the masses are at each other's throats when they share the common enemy of an inept government heavily influenced by big business and foreign interests.  Right wingers moan about the threat of Antifa but don't they realize that it stands for Anti-Fascist?  I don't think enough people are thinking things through.

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For the last couple of years my cell phone service has been getting progressively worse, to the point where I could barely get a signal in my apartment and would have to go outside for a good connection.  I put the blame on T-Mobile, figuring they were just a crappy provider, and I was almost right.  I failed to take into consideration the great strides that cell phone service has taken over the years.  I read about 5G networks but didn't pay any attention to it because I had an old and trusty flip phone, certainly not a fancy smartphone like all the kids are using today.  The thing is, that old phone ran on a 2G network, the kind of network that is being phased out by all of the carriers except for rural areas.  Hence, my lousy service.  Did they bother to tell me?  Of course not!  And as luck would have it, T-Mobile had an up-to-date flip phone available, 4G network, with enough bells and whistles to make it a smart phone if I wanted to buy into a data plan, which I don't.  The legacy "pay as you go" plan still works for me so I can get by on the cheap.  Big buttons, great call quality, and if I snag a Wifi connection I can play on the internet, just like all the other hipsters.  The camera stinks, though, but you can't have everything.

absurd

I have been trying to limit myself to posting every other day, but I just have to comment on this:

 I suspect that, if Trump had ordered a national lockdown, both Uncle Ken and I would be on opposite sides of the issue than we are today. 

Absurd. The reason I would like a national lockdown is because I don't want to die of this disease, it is not because the dems in general are for it, it is not just because the experts recommend it, it is also because I know some science and math and logic and I can figure it out myself.  I would still hate Trump., but I would be for the national lockdown.  

Is Beagles saying that it is only because the dems recommend it that he is against it and if Trump wanted it so would he?  That he is only waiting for the stable genius to be for it and then he will be for it himself?

Absurd.